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USB control (Read 33996 times)
Steve Chapman
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USB control
03/12/10 at 16:32:59
 
http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1243973647

Martin Schmidt has worked out digital camera control using ptp over usb, sort of like the Promote. Implementing it would require a simple addition of a Vinculum chip to the OCC. This will be a rainy-day project, unless someone else has time to tackle it. We'd have to use the unused Guitar Hero additional control lines on the current OCC design, probably.
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Steve Chapman
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Re: USB control
Reply #1 - 05/09/10 at 03:19:42
 
A 90USB1287 looks promising because of its on board flash memory.
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Luke Skaff
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Re: USB control
Reply #2 - 05/15/10 at 07:47:12
 
I am interested in joining development on the hardware end.  I have been thinking about a USB camera controller for a few months and stumbled on this project at about the same time.  I have a vinculum dev board and have been researching the canon USB protocol.  I also applied for the canon SDK which I have not received a response, any trick to getting approval?  I am currently trying to learn more about the GBA Cartridge interface.  Do you have links to info on the Guitar Hero control lines?
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Steve Chapman
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Re: USB control
Reply #3 - 05/17/10 at 22:17:44
 
Hi Luke, I'm afraid the Canon SDK won't do much good here. The SDK is a precompiled driver that acts as a hardware abstraction layer, which is why it takes a bit for software to support new Canon cameras; they have to wait for Canon to supply a new HAL. The SDK won't give you any info about what is actually communicated to cameras through USB.
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« Last Edit: 05/18/10 at 01:44:37 by N/A »  
 
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Steve Chapman
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Re: USB control
Reply #4 - 05/17/10 at 22:20:48
 
This site will put you on track to programming for the Guitar Hero data lines. You'd need to modify the firmware of the OCC to write or read data from these lines as well.

http://palib-dev.com/manual/group___keys_special.html
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Luke Skaff
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Re: USB control
Reply #5 - 05/17/10 at 23:48:00
 
Quote:
Hi Luke, I'm afraid the Canon SDK won't do much good here. The SDK is a precompiled driver that acts as a hardware abstraction layer, which is why it takes a bit for software to support new Canon cameras; they have to wait for Canono to supply a new HAL. The SDK won't give you any info about what is actually communicated to cameras through USB.


I was going to use the STK to reverse engineer the canon USB protocol using a software USB sniffer.  I just need to find the command sets to do simple things like setting the aperture, exposure time, iso, focus, and shot firing.  I was going to write a simple program to interface with the STK and command the camera to change aperture, etc and sniff the USB traffic.  I have been sniffing the traffic with the EOS utility and there seems to be a lot of extra traffic going on such as pinging the camera to check for user changes which makes it harder to figure out what is what.


Quote:
This site will put you on track to programming for the Guitar Hero data lines. You'd need to modify the firmware of the OCC to write or read data from these lines as well.

http://palib-dev.com/manual/group___keys_special.html


I was confused by this, since these buttons are used as inputs it was unclear if you could change them to outputs.
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Steve Chapman
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Re: USB control
Reply #6 - 05/18/10 at 01:12:28
 
Yes, you are absolutely correct,  Embarrassed I think I spoke too soon. (Especially since I bought the SDK and a USB sniffer for just such a purpose!) There seems to be quite a bit of data transferred back-and-forth to change even simple settings, which may be why it is possible to control the full usb device capacity of cameras with one machine. (128 cameras - #of hubs, I think.) This is why we're looking at PTP as a simpler subset of controls, which will hopefully support more than just Canons. It seems to be the approach that some other handheld remotes are taking.

I've browsed the devkitarm files for clues to how to make the GH lines an output with no luck. Obviously it can be done (http://www.bayerdidget.com/Home), but whether this needs some bits of assembly code, I'm not sure. Memory.h is the key, I think.

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« Last Edit: 05/18/10 at 05:35:58 by N/A »  
 
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Steve Chapman
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Re: USB control
Reply #7 - 05/18/10 at 01:37:37
 
http://www.bottledlight.com/ds/index.php/Hardware/OptionPaks

http://double.co.nz/nintendo_ds/nds_develop5.html

I think I'll try a brute-force approach and write to memory above 134217728 in chunks and see if I get a response.
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Luke Skaff
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Re: USB control
Reply #8 - 05/18/10 at 02:27:20
 
I was wondering if the other devices use the GH control lines.  They probably are writing directly to DMA on the GMA port and using a FPGA\CPLD or uC with some clever code to decode it.  I was thinking of doing serial bit banging or writing and reading from a set address on the GBA port so you could just present and read\write the data in parallel on the D0-D7 lines.  I found some code on how to read and write to SRAM on a GBA cartridge which should make the process easier to get setup: http://double.co.nz/nintendo_ds/nds_develop5.html

EDIT: haha, looks like you beat me to it.

I am interested in PTP\MTP too, at this point I know basically nothing about it though. gphoto (open source camera control software) uses PTP and I sniffed out the traffic used with that software but it does not really work on my camera (Rebel XS, 1000D), I can get it to change a few settings.  Hardware is more of my strong suite so I am having a hard time understanding the gphoto code.  I am going to continue to research it on my free time, hopefully it will become more clear over the next few weeks.

Edit 2: Lots of good info on PTP
http://ptp.sourceforge.net/
http://libptp.sourceforge.net/README
http://www.i3a.org/technologies/image-formats/ptp/
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« Last Edit: 05/18/10 at 05:45:15 by Luke Skaff »  
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Re: USB control
Reply #9 - 05/18/10 at 06:18:04
 
Wow, guys, I see you're making progress... I'm just now in the middle of updating the documentation with Achim's new design (with LED). Please take your time Wink

Welcome to the club, Luke! Seriously, it's great to see you here. There is a special vibe when something is done as team effort. I love it.

Once you figure it all out, please try to break it down into repeatable steps and take lots of Making-Of pictures. So the next garage genius can pick up the ball and run with it...

Blochi
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Luke Skaff
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Re: USB control
Reply #10 - 05/21/10 at 05:08:12
 
I though I would post an update.  I desoldered all the components on a GBA game cartridge and soldered in jump leads from each pin to pins on a header.  I wrote a program on the DS to write 0x0F0F to 0x80000AC then I logged the traffic on a logic analyzer.  I still need to solder in jumper leads to a working GBA cartridge and log how the DS reads from the GBA cartridge RAM and ROM.  From there I should be able to have a uC talk back and forth to the DS in a basic parallel read and write.

I have been sniffing out the USB traffic and have been able to decipher the partial commands used to set ISO, aperture, exposure time, exposure compensation, and white balance.  I still have not been able to figure out what is going on directly before and after these commands.  Also I do not yet understand the commands used in the constant pinging back and forth with the EOS utility. I know the EOS utility is constantly polling the camera to see if the user has changed any settings, when I change a setting on the camera I can now pick out the strings that contain the changed setting but the rest is still unknown at this time.

Once I get further along in the coming weeks I will post all the info.  Here is some pics of the fun..

Cheers,
Luke

EDIT: I uploaded the images instead of remotely hosting them.
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« Last Edit: 06/10/10 at 00:46:26 by Luke Skaff »  

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Martin Clark
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Re: USB control
Reply #11 - 05/25/10 at 12:28:00
 
have you considered using getacoder.com to get the ball rolling with this?
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Steve Chapman
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Re: USB control
Reply #12 - 05/25/10 at 21:31:49
 
It's an interesting site, although our current budget probably doesn't allow for it. I don't think we are more than an afternoon away from implementing the USB controller in prototype form, the main constraint I face is a lack of free time. I'm bogged down working on a 3D movie, though my cross-fingers plan for the long holiday weekend is to finish a DS breadboard configuration that will allow easier manipulation and testing. The new config will use Ladyada's in-circuit microcontroller programmer while remaining connected to the DS & camera.
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Steve Chapman
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Re: USB control
Reply #13 - 05/25/10 at 21:37:19
 
Hey Luke, what cartridge did you use to make a breakout header?
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Luke Skaff
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Re: USB control
Reply #14 - 05/26/10 at 00:04:13
 
Steve,
I used "boktai, the sun in your hand" cartridge, desoldered everything then soldered in jump leads.
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Martin Clark
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Re: USB control
Reply #15 - 05/26/10 at 11:29:19
 
so are you wanting to attach a usb from the camera to the DS and controll it in a way that is something like the usb tether to a PC with bracketing feature?
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Steve Chapman
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Re: USB control
Reply #16 - 06/07/10 at 22:47:01
 
We want to make a standalone device, Martin. I have the prototype board wired, though I am faced with a dilemma: The DS outputs 3.x volts, and the USB spec calls for of course 5V.
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Martin Clark
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Re: USB control
Reply #17 - 06/07/10 at 23:20:41
 
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Luke Skaff
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Re: USB control
Reply #18 - 06/07/10 at 23:46:48
 
Quote:
We want to make a standalone device, Martin. I have the prototype board wired, though I am faced with a dilemma: The DS outputs 3.x volts, and the USB spec calls for of course 5V.


Many cameras do not pull power off the 5V USB bus so it can be left disconnected.  If you find some that require power off the USB bus the USB spec calls for 500mA @ 5v which I do not think the DS was designed to output that.  You would have to use an external battery with a linear regulator or buck supply.
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Achim Berg
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Re: USB control
Reply #19 - 06/08/10 at 13:57:46
 
Quote:
We want to make a standalone device, Martin. I have the prototype board wired, though I am faced with a dilemma: The DS outputs 3.x volts, and the USB spec calls for of course 5V.


Hello Steve,

that is no problem, you can put two diodes between each voltage circuit so the 5V form the USB Camera Port ( if a camera puts it on the line ) don´t detroy the DS. Each circuit can be connected without causing problems. ( just tested at home ). To hold the Atmega stabil to 3.3V insert a zener diode into the V+ line.

have a look at the sheme Wink

yours Achim
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Steve Chapman
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Re: USB control
Reply #20 - 06/08/10 at 19:00:06
 
Achim, the situation is, however, that we need to make the 5V from the DS. Something like http://www.linear.com/pc/productDetail.jsp?navId=H0,C1,C1003,C1039,C1133,P1383
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Luke Skaff
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Re: USB control
Reply #21 - 06/08/10 at 19:23:57
 
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Achim, the situation is, however, that we need to make the 5V from the DS. Something like http://www.linear.com/pc/productDetail.jsp?navId=H0,C1,C1003,C1039,C1133,P1383



Steve, I do not think a charge pump regulator is a good choice because it can not source much current.  A boost regulator is a better choice if you want to pull power from the DS and meet the USB spec.  Something like the LM2735: http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM2735.html

Have you tried leaving the USB power disconnected?  It works in my testing.
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Achim Berg
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Re: USB control
Reply #22 - 06/08/10 at 20:24:41
 
There is one question left. "Is it needed to transmit 5V by using the usb port to the camera or are only the GND and both signal lines required"

If the 5V are not required you have anyhow to connect all contacts. I don´t know if the usb port is planed only for controlling the camera  or should it be possible to update the device by this port too? If an update possibility is planed by usb too, the 5V pin ( pin 1 ) has to be connected to power up the occ.
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Luke Skaff
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Re: USB control
Reply #23 - 06/08/10 at 21:13:50
 
Achim,
Only the GND and the two data lines are needed for communications with devices that do not pull power off the USB bus.

A 5V user supplied input connector could me added on the board for the rare cases when you need USB power like if you want to connect a USB flash drive for firmware update like you said.  The input could be connected through a simple LDO 5V linear regulator to protect the device.
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Luke Skaff
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Re: USB control
Reply #24 - 06/08/10 at 23:28:06
 
I designed a Nintendo GBA (slot-2) DMA to FTDI parallel FIFO interface.  This is one of the interfaces used on the FTDI vinculum USB host controller.  I have tested it on a Xilinx CoolRunner-II development board and DS read\write is working.

I know Steve is working on a USB host controller and seems to be further along but I decided to have some fun and see what I could come up with while we are waiting to see what he comes up with.

I am testing\debugging the CPLD interface with a FTDI 2232H instead of a FTDI vinculum which uses the same parallel FIFO interface.  Using the FTDI 2232H just lets the DS communicate with a computer instead of the USB host controller for easy debugging.  To allow the DS to talk to USB slaves, like a camera, I just have to disconnect the FT2232H eval board and connect the FTDI Vinculum USB host controller eval board.

What needs to be done now is implement PTP on the DS to talk to a camera.  I have part of the protocol figured out but will take a few weeks to get it working.

In the picture most of the stuff is not needed, the dev board has a bunch of other components on it that I am not using, a much smaller CPLD can be used, and on the right is a logic analyzer that is just for testing.

One weird thing I am running into is when I try and read from address 0x8000003 the following codes does not work.
 
DummyVar = *(vu16 *)0x8000003;

This reads from 0x8000001 instead of 0x8000003.

Edit: It was a stupid mistake, since it reads in word blocks not byte blocks you have to multiply the address by two when reading bytes, for example to read from 0x8000003 on the GBA port you need to read from 0x8000006 in DS code.
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« Last Edit: 06/09/10 at 04:54:46 by Luke Skaff »  

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Steve Chapman
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Re: USB control
Reply #25 - 06/09/10 at 22:07:25
 
I have gigs in Montana and Hawaii for the next couple of weeks. I gather your work (Luke) is based around using the DS to send the ptp commands directly, a logical choice, though I'm attempting to avoid this because I question the future of the DS product, with DSi probably taking it's place, and the 3DS becoming the main product later this year. Of course there will be DS's available used for years to come, one can still buy a GBA at Gamestop a half-decade after it was discontinued.

If we make a device that needs the DS solely for UI we can more easily transport that portion to iPhone, Android, etc.

I think you've concluded that the bus can't be made to behave as GPIO, my hope was that we could do bi-directional comms without any additional circuitry. As an open-source project we need to try to keep this DIY friendly, but that may be too strict a limitation, and it seems that many visitors to OCC solely want to buy a prebuilt device, which is cool because we're mostly photographers here.
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Martin Clark
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Re: USB control
Reply #26 - 06/09/10 at 23:31:46
 
im no board engineer, ds homebrew expert or anything, just an idiot with an idea. but couldnt you build a program that uses the wifi, like a game(built into the bracketer and other programs), and communicates data back and forth through the wireless to a reciever for instance a arduino and connects to xbee through usb and a shutter cable, for long and shorter exposures.


the hard bit is cracking the wifi, i would assume, re engineering it to do something different then what it was set out to do. and steve you are doing a really good job.

wifi. would it be the next step?

this is a stab in the dark. so i dont care if you mock me.

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Martin Clark
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Re: USB control
Reply #27 - 06/09/10 at 23:36:00
 
http://hackaday.com/2010/06/08/nexus-one-as-usb-host/


usb host for android. well that might be usefull for camera control?
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Luke Skaff
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Re: USB control
Reply #28 - 06/10/10 at 00:27:31
 
I have been playing around with a lot of ideas but I think the simplest and lowest cost solution is to implement the PTP protocol on a FTDI Vinclum-II IC then it could be easily interfaced to work on the DS, Bluetooth, iphone, android and just about anything else.  The FTDI Vinculum-II IC will not be released until September this year, so that is why I stared with the Vinculum-I to get a head start and learn PTP & USB before the release.  The FTDI Vinculum-II is a USB host IC with a built-in 16-bit microcontroller and free IDE so it is open source friendly.  This makes a simple one chip solution that would support SPI, FTDI PFIFO, UART, and DMA (not the DMA used on the GBA port).  The SPI connection could be used to connect to the DS\DSi cartridge slot and work with all the DS’s through the newest DSi XL.  Or my CPLD design could be used to interface to the PFIFO on vinculum-II with the GBA (Slot-2) port on the DS.  The vinculum-II could also be easily connected to a Bluetooth chip for communication with phones or computers.

Martin, the USB host capability on some android devices is pretty sweet, I have a droid and it has USB host capabilities but it is not implemented in the version of android OS that comes with the phone.  You have to root your phone from what I have read.  I think it would be cool to implement PTP on android, the linux app gphoto could be ported over to android because it has full PTP support and a huge number of cameras supported.   Android runs on a Linux kernel so it wouldn’t be a big leap.  For an all around cross platform solution to use with the DS and others hardware a standalone device using a USB host controller like the vinculum-II would be the best choice.
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Steve Chapman
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Re: USB control
Reply #29 - 06/10/10 at 21:09:04
 
I vote for the Vinculum, as well, Martin. I'd avoid wifi because it doesn't provide us with anything more than we already have. I used the iPhone app & on-one remote for shooting on a movie last fall, though that requires a nearby laptop/hotspot, and the OCC device was originally made to alleviate the need to carry a heavy laptop.

As of now, the only component I have added to the original OCC design is a Vinculum VDIP1

I've found that the ptp USB connection does not provide 5v to the Vinculum (at least from my test camera), so I'm left with using a boost circuit. Right now, for testing, I'm using a mains ac supply.
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« Last Edit: 06/11/10 at 19:09:58 by N/A »  
 
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Martin Clark
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Re: USB control
Reply #30 - 06/11/10 at 16:09:22
 
http://www.bixnet.com/5v7libapa.html

any help.

although. i would try and avoid this. (more hardware)
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Olf
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Re: USB control
Reply #31 - 06/12/10 at 09:03:55
 
Quote:
I've found that the ptp USB connection does not provide 5v to the Vinculum (at least from my test camera), so I'm left with using a boost circuit.

This is quite plain. Your camera is a USB Slave device.
Generally the USB Host provides the 5V to the USB Slave Device.
Since your Slave Device (Camera) is powered by its own Battery it's probable that it does not need the 5V power from the Host (unlike other USB Slave Devices like USB flash drives).
The Vinculum USB-Host-Controller itself is powered by 3.3V (as you can see at the datasheets example schematic). Nintendo provides 3.3V.
If the camera doesn't need to be powered by 5V you don't need a 5V source.

Quote:
As of now, the only component I have added to the original OCC design is a Vinculum VDIP1

There's a Voltage regulator at the VDIP1 generating 3.3V out of 5V. You could also feed in the 3.3V directly and disconnect the 5V input. I don't know if you'll have to remove the Voltage regulator for that purpose.
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« Last Edit: 06/12/10 at 10:17:36 by Olf »  
 
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Steve Chapman
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Re: USB control
Reply #32 - 06/12/10 at 23:18:22
 
So...I'm...quite plain? I feel jilted.
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Re: USB control
Reply #33 - 06/13/10 at 01:17:50
 
Quote:
So...I'm...quite plain? I feel jilted. 

Olf wrote on 06/12/10 at 09:03:55:
This is quite plain.

I am not a native speaker. I mean it that way: It's just what I expected (This is quite plain to me)
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Steve Chapman
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Re: USB control
Reply #34 - 06/13/10 at 03:17:29
 
"Plain" has a slightly pejorative connotation where I'm from, but I was just kidding, I think I understood your intent.
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Martin Clark
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Re: USB control
Reply #35 - 06/20/10 at 23:20:49
 
psp battery not do it?
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Steve Chapman
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Re: USB control
Reply #36 - 06/21/10 at 21:51:36
 
I ordered a camera (shipped today) that is known to be compatible with the Martin Schmidt USB PTP setup, my plan is to establish a known working testbed, then attempt to modify the manufacturer specific codes.

Christian or Achim, might one of you contact Martin in Deutschland to consider his involvement here?
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Luke Skaff
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Re: USB control
Reply #37 - 06/22/10 at 01:10:52
 
Steve,
Over the weekend I was able to change the ISO, exposure, and remote trigger a canon DSLR using a vinculum chip.  Canon uses MTP extensions; MTP is implemented as an extension of the PTP protocol using vendor-defined commands.  If I have time in the coming days I will post a video of the setup.
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Steve Chapman
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Re: USB control
Reply #38 - 06/26/10 at 22:39:57
 
Yeah! That's exactly what we're looking for.
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Re: USB control
Reply #39 - 06/27/10 at 10:27:16
 
Luke Skaff wrote on 06/22/10 at 01:10:52:
Steve,
Over the weekend I was able to change the ISO, exposure, and remote trigger a canon DSLR using a vinculum chip.  Canon uses MTP extensions; MTP is implemented as an extension of the PTP protocol using vendor-defined commands.  If I have time in the coming days I will post a video of the setup.


Hi Luke,
do you have to use an "external" 5V for the Canon. Could you check, if the programming will works, if the 5V is disconnected. (This is the point Olf above-mentioned)

@all:
Do somebody know the max. current, which the nintendo will provide @PIN1 (VCC)?
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Martin Clark
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Re: USB control
Reply #40 - 06/28/10 at 18:54:57
 
what about using a 9v battery and a resistor or something either inside the ds cartridge (might need to use the larger warioware case size)

or create something attached to the battery connector
in effect it would be a bit of a larger square ontop of the + - connectors but it would have a resistor circuit... http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/LM/LM7805.html ??


meaning there would have to be 3 connectors comming out of the ds...

one for usb one for shutter rel cable and one 5v in from the battery

thats if it has to have 5v 500ma
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Re: USB control
Reply #41 - 06/28/10 at 19:59:24
 
Hi,

Yes you can do many thinks to generate 5V. Step up converter, voltage regulators, ldo..... but for every reglator you have to spend something....like components = pcb space & power consumption.....charger of the 2nd battery....

But I think this is a not a good way to do. If you want to evaluate, please go ahead.

From my point of view we have to do 2 thinks:

1st: Do we need a 5V supply, if the OCC is working as USB host, or will the  cameras provide the power? -> my question to Luke (which was the question of Olf)

Two answers possibilities:

No, we need not 5V = we don't care about the 5V
Yes we need 5V = find a solution

If we need the 5V, we have to calrify which current we need. I think 100mA (low power device) will be enough (if we need more..... we have to talk about).

5V -> best solution to get it from the NDS itself (only 1 charger [NDS] needed), no additional big parts (like battery...).

Therefore I would say, please check the requirement first. What's about the specification of the Pin1 (VCC). Which max. current is specified?
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Re: USB control
Reply #42 - 06/28/10 at 20:06:04
 
Markus H. wrote on 06/27/10 at 10:27:16:
Do somebody know the max. current, which the nintendo will provide @PIN1 (VCC)?

I've found out some information on the internet.
The NDS holds two fuses (F1 and F2). I've seen some posts which claimed they are 500mA each. But other posts differ. F1 protects the battery charging process. F2 protects the remaining stuff.
The NDS itself consumes between 50mA and 200mA (depends on screen brightness mainly).

So there are max 300mA (to 450mA) left.
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Olf
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Re: USB control
Reply #43 - 06/28/10 at 21:18:03
 
Markus H. wrote on 06/27/10 at 10:27:16:
do you have to use an "external" 5V for the Canon. Could you check, if the programming will works, if the 5V is disconnected. (This is the point Olf above-mentioned)

I think Luke already answered this question in an earlier post:

Luke Skaff wrote on 06/07/10 at 23:46:48:
Many cameras do not pull power off the 5V USB bus so it can be left disconnected.

Luke Skaff wrote on 06/08/10 at 19:23:57:
Have you tried leaving the USB power disconnected?It works in my testing. 


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Luke Skaff
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Re: USB control
Reply #44 - 06/29/10 at 01:50:10
 
As Olf said the 5V power issue was discussed earlier in this thread; 5V is not needed for cameras.  I personally feel it would be a bad idea to pull power from the DS for the rare cases where you will need USB host power, you risk damaging DS since there is no clear specification of what it can safely supply.

A small two pin header could be put on the board for the rare cases where user power is needed; this would then pass through a linear LDO regulator to keep things simple and low cost.  The user could then use any battery in the 5-12V range for firmware updates from a flash drive, etc.  If USB power was needed for long periods of time or was used more often than a switching regulator could be used with user supplied power to increase efficiency but that is not needed for this case.

See my new thread here, I am not using 5V power in my design.
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Markus H.
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Re: USB control
Reply #45 - 06/29/10 at 05:55:25
 
Thanks for the answers.

Luke Skaff wrote on 06/29/10 at 01:50:10:
I personally feel it would be a bad idea to pull power from the DS for the rare cases where you will need USB host power, you risk damaging DS since there is no clear specification of what it can safely supply.

Me too. That was the reason for my question.
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